The first debate with atheists presented by "Prof. Ahmed Abdo Awad" - the Islamic preacher and thinker. The debate related to the issue of life existence.
In the name of Allah most Gracious most Merciful, Praise be to Allah who creates Adam from sand and He is Al Aziz Al Wahab. Whatever Allah willed to be shall be and whatever Allah did not will to be shall not be, There is no power but from great Allah. Prayer and peace be upon the best of the creation, the best of preachers to Allah, the best Prostrates, and peace be upon his companions.
It is the 11th lesson. It will be the first debate with the atheists tonight. Two days ago, my atheist speaker said to me, I want to have a debate with you but give me only 24 hours to collect my proofs and information that prove his theory about life existence.
I said to him you are welcome; take your time to collect your evidences and to bring other atheists who have the same theory about origin of life.
I'll be very happy of this debate because such debates consider "Jehad by word" which is the strongest way of Jehad as great professors say because you try hard to face mistaken proofs of atheists with true ones.
To speak frankly, I face a lot of these false proofs and ideas of atheists everyday in my lessons but I try hard to prove that these ideas and proofs are wrong. Everyday, atheist surprises me with new ideas and proofs and they always think they are right and other people who believe in existence of God are mistaken.
My generous viewers, we are in the 11th lesson from daily program "How creation began?"I concentrate too much in the first debate with atheists tonight.
The atheist who debates with me thinks that he expresses his thoughts but in fact he belongs to some people in many countries and he tries to express their thoughts. Some of these people are professors in Britain. I may mention their names or mention what they said concerning this issue.
There are also professors in Germany and many of them in Russia, America and in the whole world. A big number of professors always try hard to prove these mistaken facts which related to life creation.
The first argumentative issue that I face with atheist is that the atheist always thinks that the universe was formed by spontaneous energy. He exhausted me at the last lesson because of this point as he insisted that energy was the cause of life existence.
I disagree with atheist about this point and asked him an easy question you said that life began by spontaneous energy so "Do you think that this energy will continue for millions of years without running out?
Any kind of energy whether kinetic, potential or electric has a definite time after that it will run out one day. The electric energy of high dam will finish in a definite time. The energy of body will finish. So, do you think the energy which is the cause of life as you said will last forever to the end of the world?
The atheist couldn't answer me at all or prove his idea at all but he never gives in and always faces me with another ideas. He said to me that you beat me and you can prove that the beginning of life with energy was incorrect by logical proofs.
It's ok. I'll agree with you about this point that the energy will run out sooner or later one day. But I will ask you another question which you will never be able to answer.
There are a lot of researches in Germany and Britain which proved that the universe was formed by autogenesis or spontaneous reactions of some kinds of bacteria. These bacteria after these reactions turn into worms and then these worms turn into plants and animals. So, this autogenesis will make life continue.
The atheist added that if someone suffers from an illness in his abdomen. If we take the excretions (wastes) of this person to the science lab, we'll find worms in his wastes.
The English professor Stephan said that these worms don't have a source in Man's stomach. So "How did these worms form?" If the worms were formed from bacteria in Man's wastes, so life can be formed from bacteria as well and these bacteria will grow and grow and thus life begins.
The atheist said to me, I'm concentrated too much with you and I'm waiting for your answer. The atheist thought that I would give in. But I will never give in.
In fact, I have a lot of logical proofs from Quran and Sunnah which have logical and mental answer to his question. But the problem is that the atheist doesn't believe in Quran or religion and he wants strong mental evidence away from Quran.
I told him that the autogenesis of universe or spontaneous energy which resulted in some spontaneous reactions of some kinds of bacteria and then worms which you found in the wastes of ill person. When we did researches concerning this issue, we concluded some important points:
First: These worms which were formed from bacteria in ill person (by the way) I'll tell you something we discovered that not only worms which were formed but sometimes snakes.
The atheist was surprised and said to me, it seems as if you destroy yourself and your theories. So, I'm right and you prove my theory that life began by itself you found snakes in human being "Can you tell how did this snake form? I said to the atheist, wait please there is a problem which is you always forge in your researches.
The atheist was surprised and said how? We did these researches in science labs. And if we forge in our scientific researches "Why did you believe the Russian professor Obareen when he concluded at the end of his research that it's impossible for life to begin by itself?
I said to him because Obareen couldn't say that life began by itself or presented results to the world different from he proved in the science lab because he will be punished as he does international researches. In addition, if he says that life began by outer effect, we'll ask him what is it?
So, it becomes clear now my generous viewers that western professors intend to hide some results in their researches. I and others professors discovered this ourselves.
The scientific research consists of a problem and how will you face or solve this problem by giving assumptions. English professors deal with the problem through certain steps. Each step leads to a result but they don't tell people all the results and facts. They tell only the results that agree with their beliefs although the hidden facts will help people and the scientists themselves to know the fact of life existence.
I'm not talking about making a car or a plane. I'm talking about great issue of universe creation. So, how could English professors hide some facts from researches related to life existence to force humanity to believe your results or ideas? Show us the real results. Be honest in your researches.
Again, I'll talk about the issue of wastes of ill person that makes Britain professors believe that life began by itself although they hide some results and proofs.
Now, I will ask my speaker a question that he'll never be able to answer, I swear by Allah. The atheist said don't swear in Allah because I don't believe in your God, I believe in nature and energy. So, swear by nature, energy or Darwine.
It's ok. No problem, he tries to disturb my mood in order not to beat him at the end of the lesson thanks to God. I know that you are afraid from my question and you try to confuse me but I concentrate with you very much to prove my theory and proofs of faith.
This what makes me enthusiastic to present this argumentative issue in my T.V program "How life began"? It's a Jihad for God's sake.
Now, listen to my question, the bacteria which resulted in forming worms consists of some elements, where did these elements come from?
The atheist kept silent and didn't answer me. I said to him I respect your speech when you speak in a scientific way. Although I can tell you logical and mental proofs from the Holy Quran which can end the argument at once but I'll not do. I'll argue with you as you like till the end.
Again, I'll tell you that these bacteria must have a source. The atheist asked how?? I replied: we'll bring ten persons and take their excretions to the lab, to analyze these wastes, God bless you.
Perhaps, one or two of them have worms but the rest of them will not have worms. Why didn't the others have worms? If you tell me that these all people have worms in their stomachs this means It's a basic and general rule. But you say to me sometimes some people have worms in their excretions. You added that the source of these worms is the bacteria which make life. If this bacteria starts life in one or two persons what about the others?
The atheist asked me "What did you mean" "What's in your mind? I replied, I mean that these bacteria which were found in some people and not in others. So, it's clear that there is a reason for that. This happened because of an illness or disabling in body organs (body organ failure), atheist asked "What do you want to say?" I want to say that the rule which makes you think that the universe was formed by autogenesis and that worms in some people were formed from bacteria is an exceptional and unreliable rule.
So, we can't build theories on this idea. Atheist asked me why?? I said because as I told you before there is a reason for these bacteria. We found these bacteria in sick people and not in healthy people. So, The reason is that these persons suffer from a certain disease or disabling in their body organs. I as a faithful person tell you that universe wasn't created by reason.
No, I don't agree with these ideas with all my respect to Muslim philosophers. I say clear, frank and undoubtful speech. It's impossible for life to begin with reason for the origin of life. This is a great mistake. I'm still insisted to say to my speaker that if we connect the theory of life existence to a reason, this will mean that everything in our life is a reason.
So, how did people explain the falling of rain in the past? What's the reason for that before they knew chemical reactions? قال تعالى (ويسجي سحابا ثم يؤلف بينه ثم يجعله ركاما فترى الودق يخرج من خلاله)
(Seest thou not that Allah makes the clouds move gently, then joins them together, then makes them into a heap? - then wilt thou see rain issue forth from their midst) (Al Nour 43)
So, was the rain explained as a reason millions of years ago? Also, were earthquakes and volcanoes reasons? Creating heavens and the earth and planets was reason. No, please don't say that. This theory of reason was false.
The atheist listens to me carefully and tries hard to find a mistake in my speech. I say to him, you say in your foreign and western theories and researches after we shocked you with our facts that Allah is the first reason, "God forbids" you say very strange expressions and I don't like to say this. Will you describe God with these unworthy and indecent words if you believe in God existence?
The atheist replied: you force me every time to admit that there is a God for the universe. So, if you insisted on that, we'll describe your God in our foreign and western culture as "the first reason"
Oh! I don't know what to say to you this time, not because I can't face your ideas or answer you but because my culture and respect to Allah prevent me to say that God is a reason. May my tongue be dump and my hands be cut if I say this. I'll never say this because any reason must have an originator. So, who is the originator of this reason in your culture?
The atheist kept silent and didn't utter a word. I said to him oh! Please move back and give in. you said very strange and false speech. The atheist said please explain more to me. I said it's ok. I will explain more. The reason in creating things must be created, So, who creates this reason? What does reason mean?
For example, you take medicine if you are ill. So, the reason for taking medicine is illness. Another example, you travel to work in another country to get much money and to improve your standard of living. The reason here is that you are poor.
Also, you worship and obey Allah because you are Muslim and you are trying to carry out a mission of invitation for Islam. What I want to say that there are a lot of reasons in life but the question is who creates all these reasons? Again, I will tell you that all these reasons must have originator and creator.
The atheist was shocked and surprised. He said you insisted on arguing with me a lot as if we are in a court. I said of course, it's greater than a court. We are discussing a very critical and argumentative issue. We are in a debate about the origin of life and believing in God. Either I beat you or you beat me. Either you prove your beliefs about disbelief or I prove my beliefs about faith and believing in God.
The atheist said, so you refuse to say that your God is the first reason. I said "yes" because that means that there are a second, third, fourth and fifth reason...How? This is unworthy and indecent theory about Allah the only creator.
Because if God is the first reason. This means that there are second, third, and fourth reason. So, is there only one creator or more? My speaker kept silent and couldn't answer me he knew that I'll never give in to his false theories.
He couldn't convince me of his proofs to prove that Great Allah is the first reason or prove that there are various reasons. Anyway, I will not tell you a verse from Quran (تعالى الله عما يقولون علوا كبيرا) (Almighty God far above what they say) but I'll argue with you by mental proofs and scientific research which you like and me too like this.
And now I ask you to give me a scientific proof as I did. Every day, I present a scientific proof to you and I proved that all your theories and assumptions were false. We are in a scientific debate. If you want to beat me and prove that my theories are false, you must present mental and scientific proofs related to the idea of multiple reasons and that there are first and second and third and more reasons.
But tell me what the end is? Where's the end of these reasons? The atheist was astonished and surprised with my question. I answered the question for the atheist saying that at the end of the end of all reasons, it must be only one creator for all these reasons. So, Allah can't be a reason. It's impossible to say that.
Divinity can't be explained as a reason. But we must say God creates all these reasons. The atheist said to me you are very fanatic (intolerant) in this debate tonight. I said, No, I'm not a fanatic.
I just give you mental and scientific proofs. The atheist said, it's ok. You are arguing with me enthusiastically this day. So, answer this question if you can.
You always say that God is the only creator of everything in life. And really I'm about to believe you and I may convert to Islam as you convinced me with your proofs to some extent.
But I have a dilemma in my mind. I asked him what in your mind? The atheist said, first, please I want to start the debate actually now and to forget about all what we said before. He added, you really beat me and proved that I have false theories. Now, let's start the debate again to beat you this time.
I asked my atheist speaker, what's in your mind? The atheist said you always say that Allah is the creator that creates everything in life. So, who creates your God?
The atheist imagined that he surprised me and disturbed me with this question as he disturbed the viewers who I see them holding their breath as they have pity on me now. The atheist said let me explain my question to you another time in order not to exhaust your viewers and let them have pity on you when I beat you.
The atheist said, we live in this world and we feel the existence of God. Also, we feel there are strange phenomena in the world. These phenomena must be controlled and need to be controlled. To speak frankly, even the scientific researches in Russia 200 years ago couldn't explain these phenomena. They came to some certain points and stopped because they couldn't find an answer. This universe must have an organizer.
I feel now that the atheist starts to understand. In their language or western culture they say that the universe needs a supervisor. May Allah forgive me to say this? Of course this speech is indecent and substandard. But this what they understand. The faithless scientists in Russia really said that.
The atheist said to me, you always say that this great world is created and controlled by Allah. And so, God existence is very important and inevitable to the world. But we as non-believers can't imagine that there is a God could create himself. Scientist in Russia can't be convinced with this idea.
I replied my speaker saying, first, I want to greet you about what you said because being interested in this issue "Who created God"? This means you believe in God existence now and this result is enough for me because you admit that there is God for this world.
But you still have a dilemma that is "How did Allah start by himself "?. I explained this in the last ten lessons but the atheist couldn't understand this point. No problem I will try hard and do my best with all my information and experience to make him understand.
I said to the atheist, let me tell you again if you are trying to find an answer for this question "Who creates God"? This is the faith in itself. This is true and actual faith and that means you believe in God now because you will not think in this issue unless you have faith. You are convinced now that Allah is the creator, don't you? He replied, I'm still trying. I asked him again, are you convinced now? But he kept silent.
He is afraid to admit that he believes in God now. He is still hesitated to convert to Islam because the cost of faith is too high for him. Whenever he takes a step forward, he goes back millions of steps.
No problem, I will be patient with you until you will be Muslim unified in God one day. I told my speaker that we consider that caring about the issue of "Who creates God"? In our Islamic culture and in Bukhari as our generous prophet (peace be upon him) said real and true faith.
I asked my speaker who cares about money"? Who is looking for gold in barren desert? Who is caring about material of gold to make gold? The atheist answered the people in this world. Then, I told him that those people who interested in money and gold become worshipers of life and devils. My speaker said you're right. That's true. I said to him, thus if someone interested in theism, that means he tries to prove to God what belongs to God.
And when someone tries to prove to God what for God, this means he believes strongly in God. I asked my speaker, Is it possible for you to believe in unreal God? He replied, Of course not. I knew well that there is God, you convinced me strongly with this issue. But the dilemma in my mind is that I can't realize the idea.
I said to him I'll try hard and do my best to help you but don't give me previous assumptions. Don't say to me as your scientists said that the universe creates itself or that the sky creates itself. It's impossible. I'll not believe you. I warn you to say that Man creates Man, May your tongue be cut off if you say that.
The atheist asked me, "Why are you so aggressive?" I said, because you try in some issues to convince me with false facts different from what humanity knew millions of years ago. How could you say that universe creates universe?
Let me take you to a far place at the edges of a desert or in the North Pole or South Pole. I'll ask you to begin life in this place which doesn't have a sky or an earth. You say that universe creates itself. So, please make life in this place. I give you a great chance to prove your theory but the atheist said, I can't do this. I asked him, "Why"? You said that life began by itself or by spontaneous energy, don't you? You exhaust me everyday with your ideas when you said that God is a reason. Now, I take you to a wide place and give you the chance to prove your theory if you are right. So, why do you escape from me? I make you face yourself.
The atheist said I can do what you asked me for under specific conditions. I mean I can bring some water, this water will react or bring some ice and this ice will react. Then, I will start to create some elements in definite time and certain place.
I said to the atheist you will not be able to do this but try if you want.
The atheist said all what I can do is to bring wastes of ill person and take the worms in his wastes. Then, put these worms in specific environment or weather similar to the sick person's stomach. After that, these worms will react and grow and then turn into big worms, they can also turn into dinosaurs at the end.
I said to my atheist speaker, it's okay they will turn into a dinosaur or a whale if you want! The dinosaur may be replaced by a monkey one day and this monkey has a tail. The monkey's tail will disappear and finally the monkey will turn into a Man. I said to the atheist what a ridiculous speech! Anyway, although you say illogical ideas which I'm not convinced with, I'll agree with you.
Now, I will ask the atheist a question, if you are convinced that Man can be created in that way and that monkey is the origin of Man and consequently, you can make life from worms under certain conditions in which worms turned to so and so. Your ideas that you said related to sensual logic for Man. It's ok, what about Greatness? How can you find Greatness?
The atheist asked me what do you mean by Greatness. I replied him with a verse from Quran ءأنتم أشد خلقا أم السماء بناها)) (Are you a more difficult creation or is the heaven? Allah constructed it.)
The atheist was astonished and surprised then he said, Do you mean that if we suppose that people can create Man or that we can get a chick from an egg, this chick can be a goose and or sheep can be cows and goats.
I said to the atheist you say very strange speech. He asked, why? I said to him because it never happened. We live for millions of years.
Where is that monkey that can speak and go to the university? Where's the Prof. Monkey that has PhD? answer me please you exhaust me. Can you tell me where's the chick that grew and became a goose or a duck? We live for thousands of years now but we never see that. Do you want to form the history as you want, do you? Do you want to stop the history when you want after you take what you need and then say good bye to the history? I take the best from you, I take a chimpanzee with a tail and then we take this tail so, the chimpanzee turned to Adam, Who can believe this? Life continues for millions of years, have you ever seen that? Has it ever happened?
My speaker was shocked and kept silent in front of me. He couldn't answer me but he still hides a lot of theories in his mind. The debate is very strong between me and him. He faces me with critical theories and questions. I sometime give him full and complete answer but sometimes I replied with incomplete answers as I will complete them in the coming lessons.
The atheist tries hard to find a mistake in my speech to take it to prove his theory. He said to me, I asked you a question but you didn't answer me, you exhausted me a lot. I confessed that you beat me but I want an answer to this question because if we find an answer to this confusing question, we'll believe completely in God.
I said to him, what's in your mind? The atheist said, we as non-believers have a basic and important question. It's a dilemma for us which is we can't accept the idea that God is the only creator for the world as you said could create himself. We insisted that there must be a creator for Allah. I said to the atheist you really exhaust me, Why are stubborn in this way? Anyway, I'll agree with you, don't worry.
We will speak about "Allah" the great creator. We live in the world and feel him and his ability, So, I asked the atheist a question, if there is a creator for God, how does it like? How it looks? He didn't reply. I asked him, is this creator stronger than Allah? He kept silent. I asked him another question, is he bigger than Allah?
The atheist said, you asked me very strange questions. I said to him, because in this issue, if we do researches for the end of the world, the result will be that if there are multiple Gods, at the end, we will find that there is only one God "Allah the only creator".
The atheist said, please don't say "Allah" because this word disturbs me. I said to him it's ok. No problem, don't upset yourself. We will find that there is only one great creator. The atheist said, I can't understand what you said. I asked him why? He replied because it's very argumentative issue. So, please give me another 24 hour to collect more strong proofs to prove to you that's impossible for God to create himself.
I said to him, we have very strong proofs from the Quran which prove that our God is the only creator, no one before him and no one will be after him. Then, I asked my speaker to take him in a spaceship produced by NASA agency for space researches to go around the world. We will go for this trip for only one purpose. I'll ask you to find another world which has another God. If you do so, tell me this God has his own universe and the other God has another universe.
So, there will be God in the east and one in the west. The atheist said, it's ok, I'll meet you tomorrow to go around the world in the spaceship as you want.
Indeed, we met each other the next day as it was arranged. We went around the world with the spaceship for one year. After that year, I said to the atheist, I feel sorry for you. The atheist asked why? I said because we travelled all over the world a year ago, you attempted to find another God but you couldn't find except my great Allah. Do you find another God? (Do you know of anyone who equals Him?( هل تعلم له سميا؟. The atheist I can't understand this word ((سميا, please speak in a scientific language.
Finally, the atheist said to me, please, give me 24 hours to collect my proofs. I said no problem. Take your time. I'll be too patient with you as I'm defending a great issue of faith. I I'm in a Jihad to carry out a mission of calling for Islam to prove the issue of life existence and believing in God with help of my great Allah to beat this atheist and all of them in the world.
My generous viewers I'm arguing with this atheist as if I'm arguing with all atheists in the world. You see when I'm discussing this issue with him, sometimes he answered my questions other times not. Sometimes I convince him with my proofs, other times not. So, the struggle is still continuing and I'm still answering an important question. Every evening, we open our books, minds and hearts to answer this critical question (Travel through the land and observe how He began creation?)
(قل سيروا في الأرض فأنظروا كيف بدأ الخلق)
Translated by: Heba Adel